Curse

maxxfury · Jun 01, 2011, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Death Blossom spam w/ EL pet is the only thing a Ranger does that can be said to output impressive damage. Nothing else is really worthwhile.

Thats pretty much the conclusion i arrived at in the last thread..

Blossom spam with a Lunging pet, both heavily stacked with buffs.. Soh's, splinters, Vangaurd standard, and orders(player not pet ofc) and proccing mop's, barb's and daze's..

The second buff platform (pet) helps make up for some of the sheer brute force you loose from been a A/ primary..

Xiaquin · Jun 01, 2011, 05:16 PM // 17:16

Daggers, and any other weapon for that matter, are off-topic as this thread is discussing bow builds.

Mike Jack · Jun 01, 2011, 08:32 PM // 20:32

I'm sure he wants some ranger turret builds, but this topic is discussing ranger DPS and how to maximize it. Daggers are extremely strong.

Xiaquin · Jun 01, 2011, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Jack

Daggers are extremely strong.

I'm just identifying the discussion the OP began by looking the ranger skills listed. Don't see the point of dragging melee into it when there's really nothing to discuss about it other than acknowledging that it's the way to deal stupid amounts of damage in the game. *shrug*

maxxfury · Jun 01, 2011, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

I'm just identifying the discussion the OP began by looking the ranger skills listed. Don't see the point of dragging melee into it when there's really nothing to discuss about it other than acknowledging that it's the way to deal stupid amounts of damage in the game. *shrug*

To be fair on the other side of that 'argument', he did link the old thread with that stemmed from my question..and noted that it was old/dated/patched and that thread sure as hell incorporated melee as a possible solution in the OP/qustion xD and sure as hell IS a good way to throw out some big dps..

Either way, with bows... turrets took imo a way bigger hit when Ascan + buh got rebalanced.. as the barrage 'style' doesnt/didnt use Ascan.. and thats a 70%ish damage boost lost to the turrets but not to the barrage...even with its limitations and scope of use..

Wenspire · Jun 02, 2011, 12:23 AM // 00:23

The only problem I find with Rangers in HM PvE (or any offensive class) is that AoE damage is pretty much a must-have. Killing targets off one at a time is time consuming as well as guarantees that your party will take more damage during the process, resulting in a higher probability of deaths and/or wipes. Unfortunately for the ranger, there are very few AoE skills which usually is why there are so few highly effective builds for them.

Rence · Jun 02, 2011, 04:52 AM // 04:52

Yeah sorry for not making it clearer. I was looking for a turret build as it seems to me harder make than a melee build.

I haven't played in HM yet, but my heroes are all built primarily for AoE damage so I guess my Ranger would act as a caller?

maxxfury · Jun 03, 2011, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Id like to see the numbers now, POST pve skills for a turret ranger.. without the likes of Ascan and Buh.

Tho i suspect now barrage will happily out dps a turret on hitting JUST two enemies.. As before with the 70%~ damage boost used on the old turrets (used in the last thread noted in the OP)they jsut about kept up, and that barrage out dps'd any turret by been able to hit regularly between 2/3+ targets for the most part....

These days i DONT have a pve ranger any longer, unlike when the other thread was started ^ so i have no solid numbers to show.. but as i recall the output was pretty dismal when i DIDNT use pve skills when i played a turret...admittedly a turrets spike was nice, and gave a warm glow of "BOOM! dead!....next?" but i suspect that is gone too now :P

I know OP is asking for DPS turrets, but, it seems to me now, if you want yellow numbers you either prep properly and play appropriately for optimising barrage, or you pull out some daggers and a pet and run soem heavy buffs/multipliers.

Rence · Jun 03, 2011, 02:09 AM // 02:09

I do understand that the total dps of a Barrage build done over several targets is superior to a single target dps turret build, but like I've said, strategically I prefer a single target build.

The character I'm playing this build with is a proph character which I haven't played through either Factions or NF yet so I'm missing some skills. Right now my Norn and EV rank are at 2-3. My build at the moment:

IATS
EBSoH
RTW
Dual Shot
PA (which will replace with triple shot when I get enough rank and faction)
Prep Shot
Dodge This!
Rebirth

wielding a zealous Deldrimor bow and may swap in FTW! for one of the buff skills when/if I come around to getting it.

How I tested my dps with the Master of Damage was I killed him two times. Average dps is about 40 over 30-40 secs which was about the same as my previous build but would definitely see an increase with higher ranks for the PVE skills.

Actually, like I've said, I do run a dagger R/A in Factions so I wanted a ranged option for this character. (I will also play this character as a R/W melee once I get the right skills) Besides, most of the good Sin skills are acquired in Factions so I didn't want to spend my money getting the skills to make the exact character that I'm already playing in another campaign.

Xiaquin · Jun 03, 2011, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

I know OP is asking for DPS turrets, but, it seems to me now, if you want yellow numbers you either prep properly and play appropriately for optimising barrage, or you pull out some daggers and a pet and run soem heavy buffs/multipliers.

I suggest you play a PvE ranger and make the builds, then judge for yourself. The only true way to "optimize" Barrage is by balling enemies up, and if your party does that it doesn't need Barrage, it will just make the steamroll a bit faster. More realistic PvE play that doesn't tank/spank needs a practical build or it will have a high inefficiency rate.

maxxfury · Jun 03, 2011, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Never had many problems over the 5->6 years of playing a ranger with regards to running barrage, although i used it appropriately ina rea's that were easy to make the most of it.. . *shrugs.. and thats exactly what i said, prepare beforehand and optimise the playstyle needed for barraging..

Tho my previous point was that the barrage builds did NOT take a hit with the Ascan nerf, and thats a massive kick in the nuts (70~% boost lost) for turret builds... they lost a huge amount of spike and output...to the point of feeling very gimped compared to what they where..

And yes, when the skills where nerfed i DID still have a ranger so have many opportunists to use them, or not use them as it where ^^ deletion of my ranger was quite a recent rage xD

Xiaquin · Jun 03, 2011, 09:46 PM // 21:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Tho my previous point was that the barrage builds did NOT take a hit with the Ascan nerf, and thats a massive kick in the nuts (70~% boost lost) for turret builds... they lost a huge amount of spike and output...to the point of feeling very gimped compared to what they where

AS update did make turrets less effective but it was more like bringing many builds (including melee) down from the moon, rather than make them truly weak. To be with AS for a long time and then go without it, I can see why it would feel that way. Regardless, Barrage is dependent on AoE opportunity, which generally means changing play style.

Sorry to hear that you rage quit, but I for one am comfortable with a build that can "kill" Master of Damage in 5-6 seconds, solo, without IAS, pet or hero support. He has 590 health, if you were wondering and no, it's not because he has 60AL, as the majority of damage is armor-ignoring, which is why the suit of 100AL (480hp) dies in one fewer attack. That's also without Favorable Winds, which I normally bring with my heroes; just Ebsoh and Iats (just don't tell the others here, it's supposed to be super bad DPS

).

maxxfury · Jun 04, 2011, 12:06 AM // 00:06

The problem there was that turrets were FAR from been on the moon (with the blossom spammers et al) and it put them quite a way down the peckin order

i mean they were about on par with *yes i know, again :P* a barrager hitting 2 and above targets... and thats meant to be an AOE setup...and now with the loss of the "big kicker" been Ascan, with a loss of a +75% boost that multiplied all your other damage buffs....

Note: the build i used to use and tested today was a prep shot turret sans the old needling shot cos that is almost a waste now without the old buffs... im open to another setup that works better now that it did then ^^

Obviously i acknowledge the spike ability to solo drop an important target was a NICE feature!! dont get me wrong! turrets were fun as hell!! :P But i logged on my RL friends account and onto his main beta ranger...and turrets are VERY much underpar now, compared to how they used to be!.. the yellow numbers are VERY VERY tame....evn if you account for the fact its ranged and thus, has to be lower dps than melee for balance reason

(

I just cant in good conscience advocate a turret build now :/ unless someone can show me a bar that can compete... then ill retract and bow out! cos before the nerf, turrets were borderline as it was...allbe it fun :P

Xiaquin · Jun 04, 2011, 01:30 AM // 01:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Note: the build i used to use and tested today was a prep shot turret sans the old needling shot cos that is almost a waste now without the old buffs... im open to another setup that works better now that it did then

Eh? 26-30d, +17-20 from GA, both depending on attributes. Vampiric (+5), Ebsoh (+15), Iats (+20). Personally, mine reaches 86d per hit, before OoP pushes it over 100, all armor-ignoring.

Quote:

unless someone can show me a bar that can compete...

This is my go-to bar:
[GA]|[Iats]|[Ebsoh]|[TS]|[DS]|[NS]|[FW\Option]|[Option]

Though I am partial to dropping DS since I like to bring a pet along with my ranger heroes for meat shields. I supply the buffs and drop targets as they come down; play your part and you'll realize it's not about who makes the biggest numbers, it's a team effort to drop enemies.

With that build, just time your shots and be choosy about your targets. Make attacks count and rely on your team to carry their end. If you just want big, steamroll numbers, compete as melee or ball-up aggro for AoE.

maxxfury · Jun 04, 2011, 01:53 AM // 01:53

On a 10 second cool down per spike... thats just not recyclable enough for me..never was.. you would be lucky to get 2 spikes with kills out of that compared to the old 4 or 5 i could get with a prepshot>pene>sund setup...(that still stands pre nerf too due to recycle times..) given say an average 20 second window for agro to end of a group been generous.

Ah well, respect your style ^^ ill leave it at that my friend! but even that GA build isnt a patch on what it used to be! and the recycle time is just the same as before

and doesnt cut it for me for a setup thats supposed to spike>rinse>repeat in rapid succession, like the prepshot turrets could in the "good old times"

Xiaquin · Jun 04, 2011, 02:59 PM // 14:59

SA/PA is not spiking, they're consistent and deal good damage but sustain it rather than deliver a massive amount in one blow. They also cost far more to maintain and require energy management, as you noted, which cuts the value IMO. You also do not take into account the entire point of the build above: NS. TS/DS weaken targets almost by themselves. As the battle reaches a turning point, NS will take down targets rapidly. When TS/DS are available again, weaken a new target and go back to finishing nearly dead enemies.

Again, I suggest you run a build before critiquing; much like the Iats hate above, theory and application are two different things. If you're comfortable with SA/PA, that's fine, many other people are, and I don't discourage them. I do feel AS update hurt them more than the GA build, though.

Khomet Si Netjer · Jun 06, 2011, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Aside from the Glass Arrows/SA/PA build and the prepshot/TS/DS build mentioned already, I recommend something like the following for big single target damage. This is meant for a paragon primary but ranger will do just as well; spear mastery will be a bit lower but beast mastery will be a bit higher.

This build gives up to 130dps (122dps average) and a similar build with Enraged Lunge instead of Heal As One gives 115dps average plus spammable deep wound. EL will require dropping one of the other skills because you will then need to bring Comfort Animal as well.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...ox#Heal_As_One

Axel Zinfandel · Jun 08, 2011, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I created an interesting build ages ago that utilizes Dwarven Stability with Serpent's Quickness to allow you maintain Marksman's Wager (Yes, MW.), in order to spam both Penetrating and Sundering shot back and forth indefinitely. It's still relevent, I believe. not the strongest, but interesting

Urcscumug · Jun 08, 2011, 11:23 AM // 11:23

DS is interesting indeed because it allows SQ to be maintained, and SQ makes all kinds of nice things better.

Careful with Marksman's Wager though, I don't like the "must hit" condition. Asuran Scan can take care of blocks and such, but not of all miss cases. You may want to consider Prepared Shot instead. Still good energy return (just intersperse it with other attacks), it's a decent attack itself, and lets you have your choice of preparation. Some preps are more useful in some cases than others.

I might try DS+SQ on my touch ranger.

Speaking of which, here's my R/N touch ranger build, not too shabby results. 45-50 average DPS and higher spikes from VB+VT+OoB alone, and the nice thing is that you get 5 bar slots left over with which you can do all kinds of other stuff:

* 12+3+1 Expertise, 12 Blood Magic, 3 in something else (but feel free to experiment with 12/10/8/2 or whatever you need)
* a 20/20 Blood wand and a shield -- +8 AL means -13% damage (you can also use a 20 or 20/20 focus)
* Vampiric Bite, Vampiric Touch and Offering of Blood are the basic skills (energy fuels HP which in turn fuels energy and so on)

Below are merely some ideas. All the necro and ranger lines are chock full of interesting skills.

* from Blood: Blood Bond is a very nice support skill if placed properly on foes; Blood Renewal is a very powerful self-heal, but needs to be maintained or at least activated ahead of time, due to the sacrifice it's not exactly a good last moment solution; Demonic Flesh will augment the effect of Vampiric Bite/Touch
* from Curses: Plague Sending; you can also use Antidote Signet if you just want to get rid of conditions
* from Expertise: Whirling Defence and Throw Dirt allow you to tank entire packs of physicals
* from Death: Soul Feast, Putrid Explosion, Well of Suffering complement the close combat/tanking style

Veldan · Jun 09, 2011, 10:49 AM // 10:49

To all the people that say rangers don't run out of energy: you're doing something wrong. I used to vanquish with a prepared shot build (I think it was pepared shot, sundering/penetrating, i am the strongest, read the wind, triple shot, dwarven stability, lightning reflexes), and even then with the energy gain of the elite, I ran out of energy.

The only reason I was running it is that I had consumables to get +1 stats, so I had 17 expertise, which made 10 energy attacks go to 3. 16 expertise wasn't enough. Oh I was also using a zealous bow in combat, and a non-zealous set out of combat.